SWM 068 – Jan 2020 Questions – Nudists, exhibitionism, male lingerie, pet play, ANR and more
Today we’re going to be answering some questions about nudism, exhibitionism, male lingerie, pet play, Romans 13:14, ANR, and a few more things from our anonymous Have A Question page. A special thanks to all our supporters who share their thoughts, opinions and experiences in our forum.
Without further ado, here are the questions from last month:
Is Nudism a sin? If you’re a Christian, is it inappropriate to be naked outside of one’s intimacy? Are naked hiking and or swimming ok?
I’ve been struggling with the idea of a Christian nudist for a while. To be honest, I don’t have a hard stance on it. But here’s where I am right now:
I don’t believe nudism is a sin. Adam and Eve were created naked before sin entered the world. So, being naked isn’t sinful. However, I believe there is a time and place for everything, and the problem is that not everyone agrees on what those times and places are.
If everyone agreed that nudity wasn’t inappropriate at any time and everyone went naked anytime that the weather or activities permitted, then we likely wouldn’t have an issue.
Likewise, if everyone agreed that nudity was inappropriate except in the privacy of your own bedroom and the bathroom, then we’d not have any issues.
However, the problem is that you have some people who have no issues with nudity, and others who have serious issues with it.
Some will argue that it’s immoral to offend someone, and so even if nudity isn’t immoral itself, offending someone else with your nudity is. I don’t particularly like that answer because that’s the direction our society is going – to outlaw being offensive – and I think it’s making us stupid in the process. Intelligent debate requires being willing to both offend and be offended because you can’t discuss critical issues without potentially offending someone.
For example, I’m fairly certain that just about every post and podcast I’ve ever released will offend someone. It’s nearly guaranteed. I’m not about to stop because I think it’s important that we discuss these issues.
Then there’s the argument that it will incite lust in others. However, this is a bit cyclical, because the reason it incites lust is that it’s taboo and uncommon to see naked people walking around. If it was commonplace, then it likely wouldn’t have the same impact. So, that’s not a great argument.
However, here in Canada, and I believe most other countries, there are laws prohibiting nudity out in public and what we see in the Bible is Jesus telling us to respect the authorities. So, hiking and swimming naked then become problematic unless you can be assured of your privacy due to the legality, and because it’s a legal issue, it then becomes a moral issue since it’s moral to follow the laws.
Don’t get me wrong, I think there is a time and place to stand up for your rights and freedoms when governmental law goes contrary to God’s law, but personally, the right to be naked is not a hill I’m willing to die on or even get a ticket for. Since God nowhere in the Bible seems to even hint that nudity in public spaces is something we should be striving for, I’m going to say it’s probably not above the “submit to the authorities” direct commandment we do have in the Bible.
But if it’s legal where you live, then I don’t see an inherent problem with it. So, for example, I don’t see an issue with being naked in the privacy of your own home. Having people over who are also of the same mind about nudity and being naked together, by that logic, would also be alright. But be careful about open windows, because in some jurisdictions, if the windows are open, that could be considered public and thus fall under public indecency laws.
So, hiking in your backyard, if you have acreage for example – likely not a problem. Hiking naked on public trails – check your laws. Likewise with swimming – in your own pool – maybe not an issue so long as you have fences and your neighbours don’t have a second floor on their house. Skinny dipping in the quarry – check your laws.
Hey Jay, my wife and I are followers of Jesus and generally pretty conservative. We were virgins when we married and I never saw nor touched her breasts until our wedding night where we had glorious and awkward sex for the first time.
However, on our honeymoon, my wife went topless on the public beach. She was inspired by other topless women around that no one seemed to care about and took the plunge. Her topless beach experience led to our hottest round of sex afterwards.
13-years later, my wife discretely goes topless on beaches when others are doing the same. She has probably been topless on a beach 15-20 times now. Because of my job, we travel a lot and end up on beaches around the world.
In the bedroom, topless fantasies are one of our favourite role plays. When I come to the bedroom, she is often in a little thong bikini, getting warmed up for me with her vibrator. She says that the vibrator feels great over her bikini bottoms. And, yes, she has worn thongs on public beaches, although less often than being topless. Like with being topless, she will not wear a thong on a busy beach and does her best to remain discreet.
Clearly, my wife and I enjoy some exhibitionism together.
So, here is my question. Is it OK for a Christian couple to engage in mild exhibitionism like I described?
Alright, so this question builds on the previous one. In this case, we still have nudity, which I still stand by isn’t a problem if it’s legal, such as you describe when topless beaches are legal.
Here in Ontario, Canada, it’s perfectly legal for a woman to walk around topless in public. That law came into effect when I was a teenager, so it hasn’t become the norm in our culture by any means yet. I believe I’ve only ever seen one woman exercise that right, and it was at an outdoor concert – and I have a feeling she would have regardless of whether or not it was legal.
However, with this question, now it’s not just nudity, but the requirement for other people to see you naked. Here’s where I think you enter a grey area. Because for some, it might be the fact that they are finally free to be nude is exhilarating – the focus being on the nudity itself.
But for this couple, it seems to be specifically about other people being witness to that nudity. So, now you’re using other people as foreplay, and that trips across a line for me because you’re using someone else in your sex life, using them as a sex toy.
That’s how I see it anyways.
With reference to Romans 13:14, how much thinking or planning about sex with my wife is too much thinking?
But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.Romans 13:14 NKJV
Alright, so, here is the problem when you take a verse out of context. Reading this as a standalone verse, you may conclude that planning for sex is sinful, because it’s a “provision for the flesh”. However, in the verses immediately surrounding this verse, Paul makes it clear that he is talking about “works of darkness” – that is, sin. Sex with your wife is not a sin, so you can’t apply this verse to sex within marriage in general.
As well, if you read more of Paul’s writings, he often talks about the dichotomy between “flesh” and “spirit”. He uses these as metaphors, not to talk about physical things and spiritual things, but rather the life you live apart from Christ and the life you live as part of Christ. That is – the unbeliever’s life vs the believer’s life. The unsaved vs the saved.
This is important because many people mistakenly believe that Paul is talking about flesh vs soul literally and make up a lot of contradictory doctrine because of it. But he’s not. He’s talking about your life acknowledging Christ as lord vs your life believing yourself to be lord.
Given that larger context, this verse isn’t about sex at all, but rather about all those sinful temptations that come up. Paul is saying not to give them any thought. Don’t entertain them, don’t try to make plans for how to fulfill them, don’t work towards satisfying them.
Because otherwise, if the text is actually about physical desires, well, then you shouldn’t plan meals, sleep, or anything else that we need to survive as physical beings, and that doesn’t make much sense.
I’m a 48-year-old male & married to a 50-year-old. We lost our first child (stillborn) back in 2005 and my wife hemorrhaged and lost a lot of blood. She received a blood transfusion and doctors said no long-term damage because of the amount of blood lost. We had a daughter in 2007 and a miscarriage a year later. My wife has never been the same since the day we lost our first baby. She has gotten worse over the years, always irritable and most of the time angry, upset at the kids for the smallest things, yelling at them. She has not dealt with the losses and tries to fill the void with stuff, always buying things. I’ve tried to get her to go to counselling, which she refuses and she won’t open up and talk about it. I’m at my wit’s end and the kids are always walking on eggshells around her. She also had a rough upbringing in her childhood, which has caused issues as well as physical abuse and I believe sexual. Divorce is really a tough option as a believer but I can’t keep going on like this. Any suggestions?Rob
Yeah, don’t take “no” as an option for counselling. There is a time and place for counselling, and I believe this is one of those times. She’s experienced trauma and never dealt with it, and now is passing on that trauma to others. That’s not okay. Not for her, for you, not for your kids. They shouldn’t have to grow up in a home where they have to walk on eggshells. That’s going to negatively affect their future relationships as well.
So, it was me, I’d tell my wife that. Something like:
Dear, I believe you’re hurting and you need someone to help you. What’s going on right now isn’t okay for you, me, or our children. They need stable parents, and I need a stable wife. Are you willing to come with me to counselling so we can get help?
If she still wouldn’t go, then I’d say:
Alright, well, I will be going to counselling then with the children so we can learn how to not have our lives damaged by your pain. I’d much rather you be part of the discussion so we can plan our futures together, but if you’re unwilling, I understand.
This is a bit of a warning shot. Some might call it manipulative, or an ultimatum, but the fact is, you’re already thinking about leaving. If you didn’t do this, she’d be blindsided by it. This is telling her clearly out in the open “this is intolerable, and we’re not willing to live like this anymore”. So I would consider this extending an opportunity to fix things. To me, that’s setting a healthy boundary and then standing by it for the sake of your health, that of your children, and your wife as well.
But, that’s me, with my marriage. I don’t know enough about your marriage to tell you what you should do. You’ll have to make that decision for yourself, but maybe that gives you something to work with as an idea.
My husband wants to start an ANR which I am excited about. I did not breastfeed my children and have gone through menopause. What steps do I need to start lactating again, I hope you can help me.
For those who don’t know, an ANR is an Adult Nursing Relationship. I’ve written about them before, you can read the post here. It has the information you’re looking for I believe, but also check out the comments because some Christian pro-ANR websites left some comments that might be helpful as well.
TLDR version below
I believe in the word of God and as a Christian, I am about respecting our husbands because that is the way God made the male gender. But He made the female gender the need to be loved, to feel loved, to know they are loved by their husbands. We wives and most females are more on the emotional side, the feeling side. We have, I feel, better discernment. And we are his helpmeet, not under. And if a husband is not where the wife is spiritually, then there’s a raw or bad connection right there.
So, Eph 5:33 said, husbands are to love their wives and wives to honour (respect) their husbands … (paraphrasing) I feel that is the most important thing God desired or requested us to do. So here’s the problem. And I’m only telling you because of some studies I have read, and so this was brought to my attention. And then I realized this was us and this was why my husband and I seemed to be arguing the same old argument round and round never having it resolved…
So if that is what God designed us for us to follow or do, then what happens is that when the wife doesn’t feel love then she won’t respect her husband. And therefore the husband doesn’t feel respected so he doesn’t show love. Then it goes around and around like a huge circle. But about this masturbation, I totally feel is the same as committed adultery and especially if he is looking at another while performing the act, because it’s self-gratification and then hiding it. I’m still hurt by it. And it isn’t like we weren’t having sex enough. No, it was because of the internet. He went browsing and/or maybe a pop up of something and at first innocent. But it grew and that desire to look then he looked then he masturbated. And when I asked him he yelled at me. He cursed me. Then told me he was masturbating before and after we had sex, which totally hurt me because I thought our sex life was really good. There was never a problem. We are going on 20 years of marriage and I feel it was him, IDK. I embraced us getting older, but he felt I had no idea. And I even told him if I made him feel less or something I was sorry.
Then I became aware that when we had sex that he was different, meaning it was quick. I’m not used to writing about this. Anyway, and sometimes that was normal and then he could keep it until I had a climax. But after some reading, etc, it came to me the reason he could no longer hold his ejaculation is because of him masturbating. He got used to a quick-relief or quick release. So the problem is then when he is with his spouse he can’t satisfy her. And we have never ever had these issues or problems until he started masturbating.
And I totally do not trust him. And our sex life is idk, he made it ugly. He brought that into the bedroom. So for me, I am having a hard time with it, because it’s selfish. He always gets satisfied if not with me, then he can just use his hand. But for me I feel I’m just there for him to get on me and get off. Then I have to go clean up. But you honestly can’t believe that’s the way God intended it to be, that the man gets all the pleasure. And even though the wife will do whatever to please him while trying to get her pleasure also. It doesn’t happen because, well, he’s masturbated whenever, wherever. And I’m just icing on the cake for him. And so sex between only husband and wife, not the internet and his hand. And now he can’t satisfy his wife because he is used to his quick masturbating.
It has almost destroyed our marriage and he was watching porn. Started doing those virtual sex games on his phone that I accidentally found. How to get past it. We don’t even sleep together. And I can always tell he has masturbated by moods and idk. I’m in a really bad, sad way about my marriage. And I do forgive him. But I can’t trust him because he hasn’t totally stopped. And then I think well let him just have sex with me and it won’t take long and I’ll just go clean up, and he’ll be happy. But I feel used, hurt, and I’m just property to him.
I apologize for so long, but our children are grown. These should be the best years yet to come. But not good. Even mentioned getting divorced. And him knowing my relationship with God, he thinks he can do whatever, and I have to forgive. But I don’t have to, I choose to. But still not fair, and I feel like a prisoner in my home, always wanting to make sure I’m home by the time he gets home, not travelling much. This is not me. I’m a happy bubbly outgoing person. But now it’s quiet, unless grandbabies come over, and I pour all of me with them. But he comes home, gets all cleaned up, or his thing, eats, then game time on his phone, then bed. And sometimes I stay quiet, just to see if he has anything to talk to me about, especially if he works a 10-12 hour day. But nothing. I don’t want our marriage to be destroyed. Yet I feel like I’m dying inside, and we are growing further and further apart, to where I can’t even look at him because I know what he is doing, and it sickens me. And I do pray. I pray and cry. God knows I do, so I guess he just doesn’t love me anymore. And I take care of myself and get plenty of looks when I’m out, even at my age. But it doesn’t do anything for me. I want my husband to be the man I married If he does have someone else, then let him leave. Because when there is no trust, I feel we don’t have anything.
The TLDR version is:
Her husband has started masturbating and watching porn. This is making sex less pleasurable for her because he doesn’t last long enough for her to have an orgasm. Plus, she’s hurt by it because he’s cheating on her with porn. How does she deal with this and remain biblically respectful as a wife?
So, in the longer version, you mentioned that you’ve already talked to him and he got angry. I’m curious exactly what you said, because often when people say “I talked about it, but they got angry”, the conversation starts very combative. So, if I had to make a guess, I would guess that you were on the attack from the beginning and he got defensive.
Not saying you don’t have every right to be angry, but often what we have the right to do isn’t what is the more effective or productive thing to do.
But, that’s not a guarantee. Some people just get defensive because it’s easier than feeling convicted. So, let’s say you approached it lovingly, you expressed how it makes you feel, made an appeal for him to protect your feelings, and gave him hope that devoting his sexual energy to you would yield an even more erotic sex life than what porn could give him.
Well, then I go back to my rule about divorce – is this something you can bear? For some, they have the strength to continue like this for the rest of their life. If you have the strength, then there are verses that talk about such things:
And a woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is willing to live with her, let her not divorce him.1 Corinthians 7:13
Wives, likewise, be submissive to your own husbands, that even if some do not obey the word, they, without a word, may be won by the conduct of their wives, when they observe your chaste conduct accompanied by fear. Do not let your adornment be merely outward—arranging the hair, wearing gold, or putting on fine apparel— rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God.1 Peter 3:1-4
And if you look at the book of Hosea, you see a shining example of a husband who stayed with his wife, despite public adultery and humiliation.
There is a chance your message of love might reach him. It’s not a guarantee that he’ll listen to it though.
For others, the situation is unbearable, in which case, I would consider this adultery, as you do, which the Bible says is a permissible reason for divorce. Note – it doesn’t say divorce is mandatory.
So, then the question falls to – which is stronger – your love for your spouse, or your hate for what he’s doing. And I’m not making a judgment there. I think that calculation is different for everyone. You have to decide for yourself which one wins.
Is male lingerie ok within the confines of a straight Christian marriage?
Some “male lingerie” ranges from pretty mild to very effeminate but are clearly made with the male figure in mind. For example, if something is made for the male figure but has lace or frill on it is that considered women’s clothing even though it’s labelled as male lingerie? Stuff that I’d strictly want to wear for my wife confined only to our intimate moments occasionally.
Also is pet play ok? Nothing too extreme but accessories like cat ears or a painted-on nose and whiskers, stuff that is cute but still distinctly male and human just meant to be a cute and submissive role-play while still being distinctly male and masculine?
Alright, so, two questions here. Let’s tackle them in order.
First, is male lingerie okay? My stance has always been that God made two genders, distinct and separate. What constitutes male and female clothing changes from culture to culture (and from age to age), so you can’t say “x” clothing is for women and “y” clothing is for men.
What we do see in the Bible is a clear call not to try and blur the lines between the genders. Men should not be masquerading as women and visa-versa.
So, I think it comes down to the “why”. Why is it you want to wear this? Lace and frill used to be commonly included in male clothing, so they’re not inherently female. But, if your goal is to look or feel more feminine, then I think that’s where you begin to cross a line.
And that’s not to say that men can’t have interests that some consider “feminine”. I don’t want people to be confused here. If a man wants to take up knitting, go right ahead! But if he’s doing it to feel more feminine, then I think we’re drifting again.
Now, for the pet-play thing. Here’s my issue with pet-play. You’re acting out bestiality, which is abhorrent.
Whoever lies with an animal shall surely be put to death. – Exodus 22:19
That is strong language. Now, I’m not suggesting that having sex with someone who is dressed as a cat is bestiality, but it’s mimicking bestiality, which I think violates this verse:
Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy—meditate on these things – Philippians 4:8
And that I have some concerns about, because what is it that makes you want to have sex with an animal? Furthermore, why does it seem acceptable to feed that desire by play-acting it?
If we have a child that seems to be enamoured with murder, starts buying knives, and play-acting killing their siblings and friends … well, I’d be bringing that child to a therapist. Doesn’t matter that they’ve never killed anyone. Something is not right.
And I’m not saying that pet-play is akin to being a psychopath, I’m using an extreme case to try and make a subtle point less subtle. Don’t feed unnatural and unhealthy desires.
When I have sex Doggy position. My Husband if too rough bottoms out. Any suggestions for this situation?
Yeah, they actually make something for this. Check out The Bumper Deep Thrust Cushion at Married Dance. Give that a try.
Some quick background I am a morning person. My wife is a night owl. I go to bed around 10-10:30. She goes to bed around 1-3 am. I get up at 5-6 am she’ll stay in bed until 9 am when she works at 10 or noon if she doesn’t. We never have sex in the morning I would love to but I’ve learned to live with it. We have an arrangement where she will wake me up when she comes to bed for sex. It messes with my sleep because I anticipate it and don’t really sleep well. But for sex, I’ll deal with it. This week has been a problem. Sunday she had on her sexy panties. But ate too much and didn’t want to. Monday and Tuesday she stayed up until 3 am working on some craft. Wednesday too tired went to bed at 10 with me. Thursday she said she’d wake me up and don’t. So I was mad and couldn’t sleep at all from 1 am to 3:30 am after she came to bed. Friday she watched a movie until 1 am. Saturday we went to a party. She again had on the lacy panties. But just went to bed when we got home. Sunday night now she’ll read a book until late. This had not been a good week. Help.
Alright, so, sleep schedules are more preferences than anything. When we first got married, I was a night owl. My wife would go to bed early and I would stay up late. At the time, I was going to college, I had no morning courses, and so it was easy to sleep until late in the morning while she went off to work and then work late into the evening on projects and assignments.
It wasn’t good for our marriage at all though.
About 5 years ago, I took a job where I had to get up before 6 am to commute to work. Since last year when COVID hit, I no longer have to commute. But, I’m still getting up at 6:30 am to workout and then start work at 7:30 am. That’s not a requirement of the job. I picked my shift hours.
The point is, sleep schedules are modifiable.
Now, you didn’t mention whether or not you’re getting up early for work, or simply because that’s a preference. So, barring some commitment, like work, what’s stopping either of you from shifting your schedules? I mean, this clearly isn’t working for you and putting up with marital issues simply because of preferences is not productive in the least.
Now, that said, I would say there seems to be plenty of evidence to suggest that going to bed before midnight results in better rest. As such, I would lean towards an earlier bedtime and earlier rise, but I’m not a medical professional, so I can’t say that would be better for you.
Alternatively, what’s to stop her from coming to bed when you go to bed, have sex, and then she can get up again? Or, you wake her in the morning, have sex, then she can go back to sleep if she doesn’t feel that interrupted sleep is a problem? But, you already said morning sex never happens. But, maybe that needs to change. Why not trade off the timing – have sex sometimes when she comes to bed, and sometimes when you get up. That way you’re both equally affected.
Ultimately, it sounds like you need to have an adult discussion about this. Not one where you are blaming each other, but rather recognizing that there is an issue and working together to solve it.
That’s all for today. As always, if you have a question of your own, you can either email me at [email protected] or submit it on our Have A Question page. If you want to participate in the discussion, consider joining our supporter’s forum.