If masturbation is sinful, what do you do if you don’t orgasm during sex?

Jay Dee

If masturbation is sinful, what do you do if you don’t orgasm during sex?

Jan 09, 2015

I received this question last night, through our Have A Question page and even though I’ve answered it on other posts, I have no way of letting the asker know, other than writing a short post specifically about their question.  Plus, I thought I might

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Anonymous Question
I received this question last night, through our Have A Question page and even though I’ve answered it on other posts, I have no way of letting the asker know, other than writing a short post specifically about their question.  Plus, I thought I might be able to add a little extra encouragement for this one person, and perhaps others.

If masturbation is sinful, how can I ever experience sexual release if I have only climaxed two times during sexual intercourse in the past five years of marriage?

I’ve often asserted on this blog that I believe solo masturbation to be sinful (See this post, and this one, and this one, and finally this one, for more information).  So, what do you do if you can’t climax during sex?  While I believe solo masturbation is sinful, I have also mentioned that I believe that mutual masturbation is not.  So, if you can’t orgasm from sex, I see no issue with you achieving climax, by your own hands even, with your spouse, even better, let him participate.  He can touch, kiss, squeeze, pinch, whatever you like, to help you “get there”.  Just because he has had an orgasm and is “out of commission” for a bit, doesn’t make him useless.

Another option would be to include sex toys into your intercourse time.  Depending on the position, you can sometimes fit a vibrator between you, and in the case of something like a We-Vibe, which is designed for couples, you don’t even have to hold it in place.  This can help assist you in achieving orgasm during sex, if that’s something you desire.

Lastly, just because you have difficulty, or even find it impossible, to reach orgasm during sex at this point in your marriage, that doesn’t mean it will always be so.  Orgasm patterns change based on a great many factors: relationship, experience, hormones, season of life, fitness, water intake, how recent you last exercised, what you’ve eaten lately, and many more.  Don’t give up hope.

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62 thoughts on “If masturbation is sinful, what do you do if you don’t orgasm during sex?”

  1. JAMES WITTER says:

    I feel it is a great idea to be able to bring your spouse to orgasm by masturbation. I would really like to see the other spouse be the one to bring the spouse having problems climaxing. My wife and I have had times when I have ejaculated and she was not able to orgasm through penetration so I would snuggle up along side of her have we were done with intercourse and I will bring her to orgasm with my hand or a realistic cock toy… She also like me to suck on her nipples while doing so. We do a mutual masturbation session almost every Sunday afternoon but we also make love 2 times during the week. I hope this was what you were looking for in a comment and how I feel about masturbation.

    1. Jay Dee says:

      That’ll do just fine. Thanks James.

  2. Alex says:

    A lot to respond to here. I’ve been a long-time lurker and really enjoy the conversations on here, even as they can occasionally get tense.

    Regarding something Jay Dee wrote above, I don’t believe solo masturbation when you’re married is *necessarily* a sin. What if I masturbate alone while thinking about my wife? That is indeed what I do now and then, especially when traveling for business and it’s just me. Also, yes, there are times at home when I’m alone and it happens. I do think about my wife most of the time but, admittedly, my thoughts stray now and then I do use porn every so often, which I do think beyond a doubt is a sin. We are all sinners and that is one of my sins–sometimes when pleasuring myself my thoughts stray and occasionally I use porn. I am working on it! But quite often my thoughts are focused on my wife and I think that’s OK. My masturbation is never at her expense–it’s usually when she’s not there. I always try to save any sexual energy for her.

    I also know my wife solo masturbates. I don’t know what she thinks about, but I do know she solo masturbates because she’s told me. And I’m OK with that because most of us masturbate. It’s pretty normal. So, I don’t at all take issue with my wife solo masturbating. And, yes, we do occasionally masturbate together–not usually to orgasm but as part of foreplay.

    As for what to do if you can’t achieve orgasm with your partner, I’ll be honest–my wife rarely orgasms during sex. When she does, it’s usually because there’s extra stimulation at work, like her hand or my hand. She really enjoys sex and gets into it but it’s hard for her to cum during sex. What we do is: Before sex I bring her to orgasm via oral stimulation. It’s easy for her to orgasm that way. Then we go right into sex. Sometimes, she’ll achieve a second orgasm but only by her own hand or mine. It is what it is–not ideal. It does bother me sometimes that it’s hard for her cum during sex but I think we’ve achieve a good “system” for addressing her needs, our needs, and my needs.

    I do agree that we all go through different stages with orgasm. Ten or so years ago (I’m now 41), it was sometimes hard for me to cum regardless of what was going on or how “hot” it was. In the past few years, I have cum very easily. In fact, during sex I really need to “pace” myself or else I may last a few minutes. I got a vasectomy a few years ago–maybe that has something to do with it. It’s the same during oral sex. My hope is that this doesn’t change with age!

    Jay Dee, great website. I really enjoy it and hope to comment more and more. Thanks for posting this comment.

    1. Jay Dee says:

      That’s okay, you’re welcome here, even if you disagree with me.

  3. T. Edwards says:

    There are times when I desperately need to orgasm, but my husband reaches his orgasm before I am at the point. What a huge huge blessing it is to me, when he still continues to stimulate me manually to the point of me reaching orgasm. We don’t use toys anymore, because that was part of our non Christian sex lives when we were involved in pornography. As a result, he has learned me very well, and I enjoy orgasm now on a level that I never experienced in our days of porn use. I also have learned to open my mouth and use my hands to direct him to what feels good. I also love to see the absolute amazement on his face when he brings me to orgasm, even if he is “done”. It is a joy in our marriage to work together to bless each other. I want to encourage others to keep at it together, and not be tempted to please yourself for release without your spouse. (I also oblige him in having an orgasm when I am not able to have sex because of menstrual cycles, postpartum, etc.)

  4. Lewis says:

    Masturbation to mutual satisfaction is fine I believe, as it is merely a form of sex play. Solo without the mate is a waste of sexual energy…and is addictive…my opinion. I think mutual masturbation has value in variety and in learning about what it takes to turn her crank. You should help her develop her g-spot and this is not that complicated but may take some persistence. When most woman discover the pleasure of the g-spot they will reset their emotional clocks and be tuned into sex and orgasm will be much more pleasurable and intense. See Eric Smith Book On Design of a Woman /the Art of manhood keys to the glory of marriage. Basically if everything else is right put from 20-50 minutes of circular pressure with two fingers on the g-spot just might produce more pleasure than you can imagine and a good ejaculation or three to boot. After this is activated you may be able to orgasm from PIV sex most times if not everytime. Took several good hour or more long sessions to produce good results.

    1. Jay Dee says:

      I’m wary of this advice. Not every woman can have g-spot orgasms. Not every one gets them from the same motion or sequence of events. Whenever someone comes up with a “this always works” answer, my first inclination is not to trust it.

      1. Alex says:

        My wife and I have tried for years to hit her g-spot. And while there are some positions (missionary with her knees back near her shoulders, and her on top whether forward or reverse “cowgirl”) that are more enjoyable than others (we’ve never been really into doggy style), we have never successfully hit her g-spot (if it even exists). Ultimately, what makes her and most women orgasm is stimulation of the clitoris. It is very hard to do that during conventional sex, but very easy to do via oral sex and manual stimulation.

      2. John Wilder says:

        It takes some practice and patience that often men don’t have but every woman can orgasm from her G spot. Some women back off because her impending ejaculation often feels like a woman is going to urinate and for the first time woman who does not understand this, she will stop her husband from stimulating her G spot further

        1. Sandi says:

          I disagree with your supposition. Just because in your experience “every woman can” doesn’t mean that applies to every single woman. If you have some scientific studies that demonstrate this as a fact, please link them.

          Statements like that can lead to women feeling inadequate if they can’t and men to push for, something that may not be attainable for his wife.

          1. Ricky says:

            I definitely do not believe that every woman can they might be capable of in someway or another I suppose but it’s not as much as the women relaxing enough for it to happen I know that my wife but that doesn’t bother me at all I’ve tried everything you can think of and I’ve studied and researched and I know that I’m more than capable in bed to perform such a task for a woman who could do such things but my wife just can’t however she has the biggest single orgasm I’ve ever seen in my life. After she climaxes she’s done for the night there is no second or third unless there’s a decent amount of time in between and I take more pride in that. Everyone is different though.

          2. Dan says:

            Guess who agrees with you on this one Trixie? You are absolutely right on this one. There are women who are anorgasmic for various reasons and we should not be making them feel less a woman because of this one anomally that is beyond their control. I am addressing this in my current series of posts. While they are about the joys and pleasure of orgasm, I also will be talking about what I call orgasm anxiety and the undue pressure being put on women by media as well as the the unwitting pressure by their mates to be multi-orgasmic, G-spot orgamic, or to experience FE. This isn’t like deciding to go for it and turning on a switch to make it happen, if the woman even wants to pursue it. I too would like to see some reliable statistics on this one from MC1 to back up that statement.

  5. LatterDay Marriage says:

    I think there is room to question the premise that somebody can only climax though masturbation. If that has been their experience to date, it doesn’t mean that a different position or technique won’t be much more effective. It’s even possible that the masturbation is causing it to be hard for them to climax from intercourse or foreplay and they may need to abstain from it for a time to regain that ability.

    1. John Wilder says:

      According to Kinsey stats, only about 25-30% of women can orgasm from intercourse alone, the rest have to depend upon clitoral stimulation or G spot stimulation

  6. Melissa says:

    Keep in mind that you may be hindering yourself from enjoying sex with your spouse by conditioning yourself to only receive pleasure “at your own hand.”

    1. John Wilder says:

      Melissa this is SO NOT TRUE. We counsel women to get in touch with their own bodies and bring themselves to orgasm so that she can tell her husband how to get her off. She won’t know unless she experiences it for herself. Sex is a gift of God and masturbation eliminates the sexual tension that is not released when a partner is not available and enables people to resist cheating on the marriage by satisfying his or her sexual urges

      1. Jay Dee says:

        There is no reason she can’t find out with her husband, making it a bonding experience, instead of training her to have sexual pleasure without her husband.

        Sex with your spouse eliminates sexual tension. Why the need for masturbation? But then, you counsel couples to watch porn together and individually, so I guess that’s why you need to support masturbation in your practice…

        1. Sheridan says:

          Sex with my husband creates tension for me…after having only one orgasm in my marriage, that being 16 years ago I have recently at the age of 40 earned how to achieve orgasm through self-stimulation

          1. Jay Dee says:

            Why does it create tension?

            1. Anonymous says:

              We just don’t click…he ends up frustrated probably because he knows I don’t enjoy sex . I’m feeling like it’s just another responsibility to check off the list. It’s just so much easier to satisfy myself…it is so much more relaxing to be able to do it alone

      2. Dan says:

        There’s a lot of research out there that shows that masturbation accustoms a man to his own hand, his own pressure, his own speed, his own rethyme that is impossible for intercourse to match. And that’s just the medical side of it. The Biblical side of it is that we are told in no uncertain terms to have self control. Period. Manual stimulation of your spouse is not consider masturbation. But solo masturbation is considered by many to be “self sex”. Sex is reserved for the marriage bed where there are TWO people, not one. The thrill of marriage is to get to know what your spouse wants and needs. Not to ‘thrill’ self, but the other.

  7. Morgan says:

    Lewis,

    I am interested if your g-spot time line is the same always. In other words, if it took a few hour plus secessions at the beginning , does it always take that long or does she “learn” the pleasure and it takes less time going forward. I know my wife would be very sensitive to “I am taking too long”. Thx for any additional comments you can make.

    1. Dan says:

      If wives only knew how little we cared about them taking too long. Just more time on the playground at recess for us. I once decided before we even started in bed I was going to give her oral with no less than 20 minutes of solid edging before orgasm. And that was just the first one and I never look at the clock after making it through that first 20 minutes. Who cares how long?

      Morgan, [edited due to graphic content] Your body changes, your erections aren’t as strong as they once were.

      “if it took a few hour plus secessions at the beginning , does it always take that long or does she ‘learn’ the pleasure and it takes less time going forward. ”

      Changes happen with women too and they continue throughout life as they do with us. What took a little time today may/will take more tomorrow. What felt okay yesterday has no feeling or is even painful today. Today she is fine, tomorrow she needs lubricant and lots of it. In a week or month, all of this changes again.

      There is the distinct possibility that she will indeed become more proficient at achieving orgasms in general and perhaps even have the debated G-spot orgasm. In all fairness, there are women who never experience this and a woman’s orgasm is so physiologically unique to her that she may not experience what her BFF describes as an orgasm and not identify her response as an orgasm. If the earth didn’t move and trumpets sound and she didn’t convulse uncontrollably like the women in some of the blogs report or like she has seen in porn or other media, did she have and orgasm or not she wonders?

      I also wonder if a lot of this male enthusiasm to aid our wives in obtaining G-spot orgasms that involve female ejaculation isn’t chancing something unhealthy for them when they aren’t successful. Are we projecting our ejaculatory orgasmic ecstasy upon them and pushing them to have a complementary emission resembling our own as evidence of their pleasure? “What’s good for General Bullmoose is good for…” Shall we give her yet one more thing to feel inadequate about as a desirable and sexually responsive female? Just something to think about. Is there a survey in there somewhere Jay Dee. How do women really feel about desiring G-spot orgasm and FE and their sexual adequacy if they fail to obtain either. Are we only creating more orgasm anxiety in women when we keep making orgasm so central to a satisfying sexual experience?

      How does it feel to them when we make sex so orgasm-centric? Ask a man with ED how it feels to make sex and intimacy only about PIV sex, erections and ejaculation when he may be unable to experience either.

      1. me says:

        Actually, some men DO care how long it takes. My DH has said so on numerous occasions. He unmovingly refuses to give me manual or oral because I take too long (5-20 minutes). Instead, I solo masturbate next to him (I say solo because he usually sleeps through it) in preparation for intercourse, and then I manually stimulate myself during intercourse about 1 in.every 3 sex sessions to achieve climax.

        I am hoping manual and oral return soon. He used to not touch me at all during sex but now he does, in helping me climax. Foreplay was unheard if and now he gives me some good foreplay. So maybe, just maybe oral and manual return. they used to be ever present in our sex life, but he took that away because he said i took too long, it hurt his tongue/hand, he didn’t like it, and he felt like he was doing all the work.

        Selfish? Likely. I think so, but he is currently unmoving and I decided it is better to tear down a wall brick by brick over time together rather than run against it constantly killing myself while he makes it.stronger.

        1. Jay Dee says:

          Glad to hear you’re making progress!

    2. John Wilder says:

      It only takes a long time for her first experience at G spot orgasms. Once she gets the hang of it it does not take as long but here is the bonus. Once she is stimulated to that level of arousal she can maintain it and subsequent orgasms can be achieved in 2-3 minutes. I once got my wife off 22 times in one session this way. She was exhausted but had a huge grin on her face for the rest of the day and never ever turned me down again for sex. Reminds me of the little boy living in an orphanage and he said to the headmaster, “please sir, can I have some more” You get a woman off this way that is what she will be saying

  8. Ricky says:

    I don’t see how masturbation is sinful but birth control isn’t. Wouldn’t that be the same thing? Or is solo masturbation only wrong because it doesn’t involve your spouse?

    To the question: There are so many factors here that seem to be present in this ladies situation. 1. Husband could just be clueless in bed. It’s far more common then the egotistical man would EVER admit or possibly even has a clue about. 2. I think that women just need to relax. Especially ones that I’ve met from the church. Sex isn’t anything to be ashamed to talk about in detail with your girlfriends and honestly your a female, you should feel sexy and confident and you know what? That’s ok. Allow yourself to be taken for a ride. “Literally.” 3. By a vibrator and let him use it on you. Unless your a penetration girl then by a dildo and let him use that.

    1. Jay Dee says:

      Yes, because its sex without your spouse.

      1. John Wilder says:

        there is no place in the Bible stating this and you are preaching wrong doctrine and you need to quit

        1. Jay Dee says:

          It does not state it explicitly, but I believe it’s implicit.

          Same goes for watching others (including porn). The Bible doesn’t say it explicitly, but I think it’s strongly implied.

          I’m not surprised you disagree though, your theology seems very … loose when it comes to sexuality. On your blog, you promote having sex in the same room as another couple, having sex in public, watching others having sex, reading erotica, watching porn (both together and alone), adultery, and sex while using drugs. As well, your blog often shows images that are just shy of pornographic. I’m afraid your opinion on what is wholesome and what is sinful is not quite trustworthy.

        2. Dan says:

          In full disclosure, Jay Dee and I have somewhat differing opinions on masturbation in specific areas.

          If a person masturbating is fantasizing about someone other than their mate, that is lust. By Exodus 20:14, we are not to covet our neighbors wife, husband, daughter, son or others we are not married to.

          Matthew 5:28
          But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

          Based on those two simple verses, a person doing that while solo mastrubating is separtating themselves from God. Jay Dee makes a valid point. I would suggest that you need to quit playing Bible police if you aren’t going to consider the why behind someone else’s interpretation and allow that they may have a valid point.

  9. Ricky says:

    I’m not bible savvy these days but have my beliefs do you have actual verses that specifically say that masturbation is or is it just the typical vague sexual immorality? I’m sincerely asking not in a snarky way. To me it always seemed like the answers are in your heart not necessarily in the bible. A lot of the stuff regarding sex seemed so vague.

    1. Jay Dee says:

      I discuss it more thoroughly here.

  10. Ricky says:

    Is there a reason why is post stuff but it goes away?

    1. Jay Dee says:

      No, no reason. Your comments appear to be showing up.

  11. Ricky says:

    After I posted that comment my previous post popped back up. So from what I saw and what you posted in the other place there is definitely no clear passage saying that it is wrong so I guess it’s pretty much just left to the personal person and what they believe. I think that somebody who is in a marriage that is not being fulfilled by their spouse should have the right to take care of themselves especially if their spouse does not mind them doing so whether it’s in private or with the person present as long as there is consent I guess I’m feeling to see what the differences. Or if your spouse masturbated you but you weren’t necessarily thinking of them then how is that any different even if they are present because I guarantee you that during sex a lot of the times people are not thinking of the person there with their focusing in on the act itself or on something else maybe I’m not saying that that’s for certain but I know that it does happen in some cases. I more feel that masturbation isn’t wrong before you are married because I don’t see how having sex with somebody else other then the person that you’re going to marry in life is better then masturbating by yourself saving yourself for that person whether you’re mentally thinking of somebody else or not I just don’t see how that’s okay. Like that passage saying it’s better to fall in the womb of a whore. You’ve got to be kidding me. I think that sometimes we need to realize that the Bible was written by men and that not that I don’t believe in God because I absolutely do but we have to decide for ourselves what is right and what is wrong because the Bible is so metaphorical in so many situations that it’s hard to really tell what did happen or what is not real.

    1. Jay Dee says:

      My argument is that it implicitly states it, but not explicitly. We have the same issue with the Trinity. There is no explicit statement for a triune God, but rather implicit ones.

      As for your scenarios. One spouses sinning (by denying their spouse) does not give a pass for their spouses’ sin.

      And as for the Bible being written by men, yes, it was written by men, but twice inspired by God (once when written, and once when read, if you come in the correct humility and seeker heart). If you don’t believe that well…you might as well throw it all out.

  12. Ricky says:

    I appreciate the response and I forgot to put my name up in the top box I guess my biggest question would be what is the difference between solo masturbation if your spouse is present or solo masturbation if your spouse isn’t? Other than the fact that they’re just sitting there watching you. Especially if they gave you permission or their approval to do it in both scenarios.

    1. Jay Dee says:

      I added your name.

      Well, let’s say you have two people going to dinner, sitting at the same table and sharing a meal.
      Then you have another couple that goes the same restaurant, but sits at different tables, still is eating the same thing, everything is identical, but they are doing it separately.

      What’s the difference. One would be considered a date. The other would not be. Why? Because one is relationship building, and the other is not. In the Old Testament, the euphemism for sex is “yada”, “To Know” someone. You cannot get “to know” someone, if you are masturbating separately. However, you can learn a lot, even share the experience, just by watching, or being watched.

      In the over example, giving permission to go and eat separately would no more make it a date. However, we’re talking about sex, not supper. It’s an innately intimate experience. Biologically, it’s a bonding experience as well. If you masturbate alone, you are teaching your body, and mind, that experiencing sex doesn’t require your spouse.

      Using another analogy, if someone was saying they were experiencing spirituality, but without God, well, then that would be considered drawing away from God. I argue that experiencing sex, without your spouse, is drawing away from them as well.

      1. Dan says:

        The dinner date experience was a very well done analogy, Jay Dee and makes a good argument. I have actually told my wife if I were to masturbate I would prefer to have her present than do it solo and prefer to have her help or joint participation. I think by it’s still slightly taboo nature that admitting to masturbation and then doing it in front of or in conjunction with your partner puts you in position of physical, emotional and psychic vulnerability. To do that requires building trust between you and your partner and building trust creates bonds so mutual or accompanied masturbation could have a positive effect on the marriage.

        Also, not only do you build trust with your partner, but you develop trust in yourself as to how you define your sexual needs and ask for what you want in the relationship.

  13. Ricky says:

    Nicely done. The bible doesn’t clear it up but your theories definitely did and by the way I agree that it can take from the bedroom I was just looking for proof. I preferred to save myself or my wife until she is ready whether that means daily or not daily it’s just the way it is. I have had a hard time with some things in the Bible over the past couple years just with the life experiences that I have and it just seems so crazy to me that God would give humans certain feelings and then tell them not to act on them you know I just don’t understand that at all or what the purpose of it was or if it’s even really as big of a deal as a lot of people make it out to be I just don’t know.

    1. Jay Dee says:

      I think God created the basic emotions, and intended for them to be applied properly. However, when sin entered the world, then we found new possibilities for those base emotions.

      Love can be twisted into hate. Desire can be corrupted into lust. That’s not God’s fault. It’s a byproduct of freewill.

    2. John Wilder says:

      See you are convincing people who are not skilled in the Bible that you are right when you are so wrong.

  14. Ricky says:

    True but is it really free will if we make the wrong choice we suffer for eternity? One question that I have for the big man was if someone didn’t ask to be created how then can you say serve me or burn in hell. You have “free will” to not chose this but you will suffer forever if you do. It’s a manipulated end result. I choose to serve not because I have to but because it feels right. However some people I know that were raised in church but ended up straying feel that way.

    1. Jay Dee says:

      Well, there we have a difference in theology. God says you will burn forever…but Biblically, when things happen “forever”, it means for the life of that object. Sodom and Gomorrah were to burn forever, but you can’t go there and see them still burning. The Bible is quite clear that we are not immortal (See 1 Corinthians 15:53), that the only time we “put on immortality” is after judgement day, when we accept Christ. Why would God grant immortality to someone who wanted nothing to do with Him? So the sinner could burn forever, as you said, for making the wrong decision.

      Rather, it is more in keeping with the Bible to say that God will destroy those who could not stand eternity with Him. Those who, through their lives, decided that they could not accept God. So, He will, in an act of mercy, consume them in fire.

      And so, I believe the choice is: You have a lifetime to decide if you want to live with me, or not. If not, He accepts, and back where you came from, nothingness. From dust to dust. If you do, well then, accept the gracious gift of God, an eternity with Him. After all, those who don’t accept God, could hardly accept an eternity where the very light emanates from Christ, forever reminding you of His dominion over your life. To them, THAT would be hell.

      I agree with you 100%, a God who says “Follow me or suffer punishment forever” could hardly be considered loving. Add to that the teaching of predestination that many churches have, and you have God creating people that He has decided will not accept Him, and thus will burn for eternity. I don’t understand how these people think they serve anything but a sadistic God. Obviously, these aren’t in keeping with a Biblical loving God, and so must be false doctrine.

      1. Ricky says:

        What you just said is exactly how I’ve always felt in it’s always been kind of frowned upon for me to express that I feel like that I don’t understand how a gracious and loving God would create somebody just so that he could torture them forever it doesn’t make sense. Can you shed any light to me on how sin could not come from God if God created all things? I know I’ve heard of things that separate sin from God and I know that there is a passage or few that talk about it but I can’t remember specifically but how could something that was made by God not come from him if that makes sense.

        1. Jay Dee says:

          Well, here’s the thing: Sin is not a thing. It’s more like an absense of a thing. If following God is holy, then not following God is sin. So, God doesn’t need to make sin in order for it to exist. He just needs to make the opposite, and then there be a choice.

          It’s like this: Are the people who invested the computer responsible for viruses? After all, they invested the concept of a computer program. They gave us options to modify computers, to write code, in order that we could do productive things with it. However, with that comes a sort of freewill. Some abused that freewill and used it maliciously. Did the “creators” of computers create viruses? No. Is it their fault? I don’t think anyone would say it was. However, they created the means for it to exist.

          In the same way, while God created the means for sin to exist, He did not directly create sin. Because it’s an abstract concept, in fact it’s really the opposite of an abstract concept: namely following God’s will. Just as God didn’t “create” darkness. He created light, and as darkness is an absence of light, He, indirectly created darkness. You can’t measure darkness, you can’t hold it, it’s not a thing that needs creating. It’s only with the creation of light that it becomes a possibility. But, we don’t say God is a god of darkness. He’s always associated with light. There are many things like this. Space is only space because it is void of matter. Silence only exists because of a lack of sound. You can’t really “feel” apathy, it’s a lack of feeling something else. Did God create space, silence, and apathy? No, He created matter, sound and emotion.

          That’s how I see it anyways.

          Now, He COULD have forgone creating freewill, and thus voided the ability for sin to exist…but then He would be missing the primary component in His creation: love. Because love, without freewill, is not love. It’s merely programming. So, I could argue that God knowing created a universe in which sin would exist, in order that some may love Him. I’m okay with that. You have to decide if you are.

        2. Linda says:

          The penalty sin pays is death NOT TOTMENT. NOWHERE DOED THE BIBLE TEACH TORMENT. yes God would be sadistic indeed if that were the case. That is a false teaching

  15. Ricky says:

    I know where I stand it’s just a question that I hear floating around. Like I said I chose to follow Jesus because I wanted to I don’t feel I HAVE to or I’ll “go to hell.” I really appreciate your insight it’s been very helpful. I like your site I created a sports page on Facebook for debating topics. I love sports lol. Seahawks specifically! Went to the playoff game last weekend. Anyways thanks again and keep up the good work.

    1. Jay Dee says:

      Happy to help.

  16. Keelie Reason says:

    I completely agree with your position. I think that masturbation can be done with your spouse. This is also a good idea when a woman is on her period. If you don’t feel comfortable having sex on your period, then you both can feel release through ways of manual stimulation.

  17. John Wilder says:

    I must respectfully disagree with your teaching here. First of all from OT to NT it states specifically not to add to the word or take away from the word. The word speaks for itself. Jesus said: “in vain do they worship me teaching for doctrine the commandments of men.

    By your statement, what you are essentially saying is that God screwed up and forgot to put in that masturbation is a sin, so you as a good Christian have to clean up God’s mistakes. Now the Bible is explicit in what is sexual sin including every family member that can be considered incest to have sex with, that men are forbidden to have sex with a female animal and if he does that the animal and the man should be put to death and that women are forbidden to have sex with a male animal but she does the animal and the woman must be put to death. So if God is going to be that explicit, don’t you think that he would have stated that masturbation is a sin.

    Now here is the proof that it is not a sin.
    Leviticusl 15:16-18
    16 ‘Now if a [man has a seminal emission, he shall bathe all his body in water and be unclean until evening. 17 As for any garment or any leather on which there is seminal emission, it shall be washed with water and be unclean until evening. 18 If a man lies with a woman so that there is a seminal emission, they shall both bathe in water and be unclean until evening.

    Now go and argue with God’s word. Unclean is not a sin, just means that he can’t go into the temple until the evening. You must be VERY CAREFUL with scripture and clearly you were not here.

    1. Jay Dee says:

      I am not adding to or subtracting, I’m interpreting and extrapolating. There’s quite a difference. I’m not saying God screwed up at all. In fact, since the Jewish belief is that masturbation is sinful, then one would think He would have corrected them, as He did on all their errant beliefs. His omission seems to indicate that their belief that masturbation is sin is correct. As well, every time you look at good reasons for sex in the Bible, it has to do with the benefits to a relationship:

      • Procreation – Gen 1:28
      • Intimacy – Song 1:13, 2:3, 2:6, 4:5
      • Companionship – Song 3:1
      • Pleasure – Song 1:2
      • Comfort – 2 Samuel 12:24

      All of these have to do with having a spouse, of building that relationship. Masturbation only tears it apart, using a substitute for your spouse instead of self-control. How can that be anything but a sin?

      As for Leviticus 15:16-18, I haven’t seen a commentary yet that doesn’t say this is dealing with nocturnal emissions, not masturbation.

      1. John Wilder says:

        This is just not true. The passage also includes his wife. It just says that if a man has an ejaculation does not matter if it is a nocturnal emission, masturrbation or sex with his wife. If the man is married he is not experiencing nocturnal emissions. This would take a while of no sex for that to occur which would then violate the command in Proverbs 5 which says: Rejoice always with the wife of your youth, let her be as a loving hind and a pleasant roe. Let her breasts satisfy thee at all times and be thou always RAVISHED in her love. Now ravished is biblical term meaning great sex. Point me to a commentary that says that it is only ncoturnal emissions. God specifically states what is sexual sin as previously mentioned, He does not want us guessing or extrapolating but states it specifically. Since it does not say it you are definitely ADDING TO THE WORD. Dr. Larry Lewis who is a GIANT in Southern Baptist circles agrees that if God does not say it and spell it out then it is not sin.

        1. Jay Dee says:

          Commentaries that say it’s only nocturnal emissions:
          Keil and Delitzch’s commentary on the Old Testaments says it’s an “involuntary emission of seed”.
          John Gill’s commentary states “Not in lawful cohabitation, nor voluntarily, but involuntarily”, and he continues “not through any disorder, which came by an accident, or in any criminal way, but through a dream, or any lustful imagination; what is commonly called nocturnal pollution”
          Matthew Poole’s commentary has “not through weakness of the parts, as that Le 15:3; but in his sleep, which is called nightly pollution, which, though involuntary, might arise from some lustful dream or imagination.”
          John Trapp’s commentary says “By nocturnal pollutions, filthy dreams, etc.”

          Those are just a quick flip through some that I have. I’m sure there are more, but I have no need to go digging. I have yet to see one say it talks about masturbation.

          And there is no stipulation that the man is married. You are adding a lot to that passage in order to bring about your point of view.

          Once again, I’m not arguing that the Bible explicitly states that masturbation is a sin, but that it is implicit. You keep putting up this straw man attack, which is a unethical debating tactic, and I’m not going to defend a position of your own creation.

        2. Dan says:

          John,
          You seem to want to leave out Lev 15:31. It states clearly that God wants His people seperated from any ‘uncleaness’, lest His people die.

          Also, if masturbation was ‘okay’, then in 1Corinthians 7 6-9. Paul could have easily said here that if one ‘burns’ then let them masturbate. But he DID NOT. He said if you ‘burn’ then it’s better to marry.

          We are commanded many times to have self control and NOT give in to the fleshly and worldly desires. Masturbation is nothing less than giving in to self.

      2. John Wilder says:

        Then how do you explain the fact that the scripture also includes the wife in the equation, You speak about marriage but what about people who are not married and have sexual urges. I once decided to try to see how long I could go without masturbating in my twenties. I lasted 2 weeks and still had not had a nocturnal emission. I had constant erections and was lusting over every cute woman I saw. Masturbation is the way to keep the body in subjection that Paul speaks about.

        It is sort of like dieting. If you do without food for several days you tend to eat anything to kill your hunger pangs. Jesus would not have told us that if we look at a woman to lust after her you have already sinned if there were not an escape that is promised to us by the Holy Spirit. That way of escape is masturbation. Again when it comes to sin, God speaks explicitly with no room for interpretation. Your handling of scriptures is like the homosexuals who explain away the abomination of homosexuality. God is EXTREMELY EXPLICIT IN DEFINING SEXUAL SIN and does not speak implicitly.

        So why did you kill my latest comments and delete them. It says to me that you are trying to strangle dissent on your blog. I am a former Baptist minister BTW

        John Wilder

        1. Jay Dee says:

          I killed your comments because:
          1) You are using a straw man attack. Never do I try to add to scripture, but all your arguments are against adding to scripture. This is an unethical discussion behavior. You should be teaching
          2) You aren’t adding anything useful to the conversation, just going around in circles
          3) While I do allow people to disagree on the blog, a discussion with no new arguments that continuous ad nauseum is beneficial to no one
          4) No one commentator has caused so many people to email me directly and ask that said commentator not be allowed to continue because he is teaching ungodly things. A few have seen your blog and are appalled that you claim to be part of the Christian community.

          And so, based on scriptural advice, I decided it was best to keep you from my community.

          As for the escape that is promised by the Holy Spirit:

          For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins. 2 Peter 1:5-9

          Ergo, teaching people that masturbation is a viable alternative to self control cheats them of gaining perseverance, godliness, mutual affection and love, and makes them ineffective and unproductive in God’s Kingdom.

          I think you are attempting to rationalize your addiction to masturbation, and likely a porn addiction as well, and in order to justify it, you now teach others that it’s okay, even beneficial. And now you fight against me so that you don’t have to deal with the internal struggle.

          But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. – Galatians 5:16

          As for being a former baptist minister, that is little to no consequence to this discussion.

  18. John Wilder says:

    I would say to the woman who asked the question about only climaxing from intercourse twice in five years,
    buy a Hitachi Magic Wand vib. It is the industrial strength power tool vibrator guaranteed to get her off, She can use it during intercourse.

  19. John Wilder says:

    Here is commentary apparently you have not seen:

    Commentary on Leviticus 15:16-17

    The Communicator’s Commentary, Word Books, 1990

    With regard to normal emissions of semen(nocturnal emissions or masturbation), (16-17) ceremonial uncleanness exists only for the remainder of the day.. The man is to bathe and any garments or leather are to be washed as part of the cleansing rite.
    Note that there is no sin mentioned here

    The Tyndale Old Testament Commentaries, Leviticus, R.K. Harrison, PH.D, D.
    Intervarsity Press 1980

    Temporary male discharges were discussed in terms of emissions of semen, principally In relationship to sexual activity, though other situations including spontaneous nocturnal emissions (Deut 23:10) could have been invisaged. Contact with semen made persons and clothing unclean. The remedy for this was to wash the body and any contaminated articles with water and be unclean until the evening. The notion that ejaculated semen was a pollutant seems to have been widespread in the ancient Near east, being found the Bablyonians, Egyptions, Greeks and Romans, as well as in some Semitic groups. In the Old Testament the idea is referred to in Exodus 19:15, Leviticus 22:4, Deut 23:10, I Samuel 21:4-5 and in II Samuel 11:11. Anything that was deemed ceremonially unclean could contaminate the ceremonial purity of the individual. Even though no purificatory sacrifice was required in the instances mentioned here, the prescribed ritual procedures had to be undertaken because whatever had come into contact with the emission was unclean for that day. The intent was to keep legitimate but “unclean” biological function from defiling that which was holy.

    1. Jay Dee says:

      Alright, so I have 4, you have 2, regardless, it doesn’t change the rest of my argument. The Bible won’t be changed because of one proof text that has little to do with the topic at hand.

  20. greville constantine says:

    I say yes & no. Yes , masturbation is a sin. No, solo masturbation is not sinful, unless & until it becomes more important that sexual intercourse with your spouse. Being a former masturbator myself ( God delivered me from the obsession I had with it being my only source of physical stimulation), I know how addictive masturbation can be. However, I also know that masturbation is a bodily function that is as a result of the body, God’s creation, being lost in the grip of the cursed nature of sin. Paul the apostle confirms this in Romans 8: 18-23. So thus to say that solo masturbation is sinful might be cutting it a little too close. Once we understand the biological function it serves (if I can say so), we must learn how to control it. One of our commentators gave a brilliant idea of how this can be done. Alex I believe is the one. And John Wilder seems to be more realistic to me ( not taking anything away from you JD). As for Spot stimulation, I have successfully brought my wife to orgasm numerous times by using my finger to explore & rub the spot. It brings her tremendous pleasure & then we go straight into sex & we are both intensely satisfied afterwards. I have invited her on many occasions to masturbate with me, however she prefers I pleasure her more & then we just go into serious love making. I believe this stems from her intense desire to start having children, so any desire to enjoy herself is put aside by learning more about what we can do to successfully give birth to our first child (or children). I respect this & hope that one day soon, she will be relaxed & responsive enough to enjoy sex for the fun it can be. I will say more on this in the other post about masturbation.

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