WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.100 --> 00:00:06.560 Hello, and welcome to the Sex Within Marriage podcast. 2 00:00:06.560 --> 00:00:11.600 I'm JD from UncoveringIntimacy.com, and we help couples build intimacy that strengthens 3 00:00:11.600 --> 00:00:12.600 their marriage. 4 00:00:12.600 --> 00:00:16.440 I had this question come in through our anonymous question page, so I'm just going 5 00:00:16.440 --> 00:00:17.640 to jump right into it. 6 00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:19.680 Hello, and thank you for taking my question. 7 00:00:19.680 --> 00:00:21.600 Married 17 years with two amazing girls. 8 00:00:21.600 --> 00:00:26.040 I love my wife and have been with her since 20 years old, now 42. 9 00:00:26.040 --> 00:00:29.880 My wife and I have sex around twice a week, and I'm always the initiator. 10 00:00:29.880 --> 00:00:32.720 I have been asking for years if we could work on foreplay. 11 00:00:32.720 --> 00:00:36.600 She never flirts, send texts, or anything to initiate sex with me. 12 00:00:36.600 --> 00:00:40.400 Furthermore, she refuses to let me finger her or give her oral sex, which I would really 13 00:00:40.400 --> 00:00:41.640 like to experience. 14 00:00:41.640 --> 00:00:46.660 She also refuses to give me oral sex or try any new toys, although she can orgasm with 15 00:00:46.660 --> 00:00:50.400 a vibrator, and that is the only way she is able to orgasm. 16 00:00:50.400 --> 00:00:54.940 I ask to try new things, but always get, I like what we do already, or I get an emoji 17 00:00:54.940 --> 00:00:56.880 with eyes rolling. 18 00:00:56.880 --> 00:01:00.600 She then says, I guess I'll just never be good enough for you, or is this all you ever 19 00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:01.880 think about? 20 00:01:01.880 --> 00:01:06.080 I feel like I'm always the one putting in any effort, and the sex that I am given is 21 00:01:06.080 --> 00:01:09.400 to shut me up or to check a box as a wifely duty. 22 00:01:09.400 --> 00:01:14.080 Sex or anything sex related is always on her terms, what she wants, how she wants it. 23 00:01:14.080 --> 00:01:18.560 It's not a deal breaker that we cannot enjoy these things together, but I would love to 24 00:01:18.560 --> 00:01:21.480 have these opportunities as her husband. 25 00:01:21.480 --> 00:01:24.600 Even more, I would like to have a good reason of why she refuses. 26 00:01:24.600 --> 00:01:29.080 She just says that she does not want that, or doesn't feel good, or it's gross, or maybe 27 00:01:29.080 --> 00:01:30.480 some other time. 28 00:01:30.480 --> 00:01:34.720 I even ask her to do little things like come to bed without panties, or send a flirty 29 00:01:34.720 --> 00:01:36.560 text, which never happens. 30 00:01:36.560 --> 00:01:41.520 She would allow me to do these things when we dated, so I want her where it got into her 31 00:01:41.520 --> 00:01:43.680 mind to never do them again. 32 00:01:43.680 --> 00:01:46.560 I am her only sexual partner, and she is my second. 33 00:01:46.560 --> 00:01:50.640 She has never had any sexual trauma that I'm aware of, or past issues that would hold her 34 00:01:50.640 --> 00:01:53.280 back from exploring these types of enjoyment. 35 00:01:53.280 --> 00:01:57.440 We are both clean people and take good care of ourselves, and I guess as a husband in 36 00:01:57.440 --> 00:02:02.000 a loving marriage, where we have a great family and everything is pretty darn good, 37 00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:03.440 I just do not understand. 38 00:02:03.440 --> 00:02:08.040 I feel like I've been plenty patient over the years asking for this, but nothing ever seems 39 00:02:08.040 --> 00:02:09.040 to change. 40 00:02:09.040 --> 00:02:10.040 Thank you. 41 00:02:10.040 --> 00:02:15.360 Okay, so in answer to that, I've said this in bits and pieces over the years, but I'm 42 00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:19.440 not sure I've ever articulated the whole thing in one place before, so let's see if I can 43 00:02:19.440 --> 00:02:21.120 manage it this time. 44 00:02:21.120 --> 00:02:26.080 The amount you need to lead or carry a part of your relationship is directly proportional 45 00:02:26.080 --> 00:02:29.960 to the relative strength of your desire for that part of your relationship compared to 46 00:02:29.960 --> 00:02:32.120 your spouses. 47 00:02:32.120 --> 00:02:36.440 I know that's quite a mouthful, but I'll try to break it down. 48 00:02:36.440 --> 00:02:40.760 If you both have relatively high drives, then you're going to be more of an even split. 49 00:02:40.760 --> 00:02:46.720 A lot of people experience this early on, there's plenty of NRE, new relationship energy, otherwise 50 00:02:46.720 --> 00:02:52.520 known as infatuation, and this can be problematic because later on when it shifts, it can feel 51 00:02:52.520 --> 00:02:56.840 like a bait and switch for the now higher drive spouse. 52 00:02:56.840 --> 00:03:01.680 When one of you is relatively very high and the other is relatively very low or their sex 53 00:03:01.680 --> 00:03:06.240 drive is close to non-existent, then the higher drive spouse is going to be initiating and 54 00:03:06.240 --> 00:03:11.640 leading the sexual part of their relationship nearly 100% of the time. 55 00:03:11.640 --> 00:03:16.240 That can understandably also create conflict and some negative feelings because it feels 56 00:03:16.240 --> 00:03:19.440 kind of icky to be the one initiating all the time. 57 00:03:19.440 --> 00:03:23.300 It can make you feel like a pest, like you're forcing your spouse to have sex with you, 58 00:03:23.300 --> 00:03:27.760 like you're in imposition, or like they don't actually want to be with you, and it gets compounded 59 00:03:27.760 --> 00:03:34.240 by dismissive or condescending gestures like eye rolling even in emoji form. 60 00:03:34.240 --> 00:03:37.680 That said, this setup is perfectly okay if two things are true. 61 00:03:37.680 --> 00:03:43.040 One is that you both understand that this is your dynamic, and the second is that the lower 62 00:03:43.040 --> 00:03:47.680 drive spouse recognizes that sex is an important part of the marriage even if they don't personally 63 00:03:47.680 --> 00:03:49.760 feel a drive for it. 64 00:03:49.760 --> 00:03:51.800 And this is the arrangement that my wife and I have. 65 00:03:51.800 --> 00:03:56.160 She has little to no drive and that's okay, I understand she's never going to be the one 66 00:03:56.160 --> 00:04:01.000 to initiate, so I don't ask her whether or not she wants to have sex because if I'm asking 67 00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:05.000 her to come up with a desire herself, the answer is always going to be no. 68 00:04:05.000 --> 00:04:08.200 But that doesn't mean she doesn't enjoy sex once I lead it. 69 00:04:08.200 --> 00:04:13.120 I've had to get over the fact that she probably isn't going to initiate regularly and when 70 00:04:13.120 --> 00:04:17.120 she does, it comes out of love for me rather than her own desire. 71 00:04:17.120 --> 00:04:19.240 Now honestly, that took a while to get over. 72 00:04:19.240 --> 00:04:21.040 Once I did, things got much better. 73 00:04:21.040 --> 00:04:25.800 Once I understood that leading is my role and she's okay with it being my role, it stopped 74 00:04:25.800 --> 00:04:27.240 being a problem. 75 00:04:27.240 --> 00:04:29.000 But notice what that depends on. 76 00:04:29.000 --> 00:04:30.320 She doesn't turn me down. 77 00:04:30.320 --> 00:04:31.600 She doesn't roll her eyes at me. 78 00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:34.640 She doesn't get frustrated that I want her. 79 00:04:34.640 --> 00:04:39.920 And there's one more piece, you have to get good at sex, so that the lower drive spouse genuinely 80 00:04:39.920 --> 00:04:44.800 enjoys it once they're there, even if they never intrinsically look forward to it. 81 00:04:44.800 --> 00:04:48.880 Because if you're initiating something that she's not going to enjoy, well, then you're 82 00:04:48.880 --> 00:04:52.600 lucky she's willing to put up with that twice a week for your benefit. 83 00:04:52.600 --> 00:04:54.620 Now in your case, she won't let you lead. 84 00:04:54.620 --> 00:04:59.920 You have the responsibility of leading, initiating, but not the authority and those two need to 85 00:04:59.920 --> 00:05:01.160 go together. 86 00:05:01.160 --> 00:05:05.440 She doesn't want you to try anything, explore anything or do anything to her. 87 00:05:05.440 --> 00:05:08.760 And that's a real struggle because how are you supposed to find out what makes it really 88 00:05:08.760 --> 00:05:12.320 good for her if you're not allowed to explore at all? 89 00:05:12.320 --> 00:05:17.000 So that's the thing I'd bring to her, not a request for a specific act, something more 90 00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:19.920 like I want to make sex better for both of us. 91 00:05:19.920 --> 00:05:24.480 And to do that, we need some way to explore that isn't too uncomfortable for you. 92 00:05:24.480 --> 00:05:29.440 And we need to be able to talk about it afterwards so that we can work out what doesn't work. 93 00:05:29.440 --> 00:05:32.120 And here's what worries me most about this question. 94 00:05:32.120 --> 00:05:35.520 You don't know why she doesn't want to do these things. 95 00:05:35.520 --> 00:05:40.300 However, she told you four different times, you wrote them down yourself. 96 00:05:40.300 --> 00:05:46.220 He just says she doesn't want that or it doesn't feel good or it's gross or maybe some 97 00:05:46.220 --> 00:05:47.900 other time. 98 00:05:47.900 --> 00:05:49.660 These are four different answers. 99 00:05:49.660 --> 00:05:53.140 And I think you've been hearing them as one general refusal. 100 00:05:53.140 --> 00:05:54.420 And I don't think that they are. 101 00:05:54.420 --> 00:05:57.780 I think they're different problems wearing the same coat and each one needs something different 102 00:05:57.780 --> 00:05:58.780 from you. 103 00:05:58.780 --> 00:06:03.740 So let's take it's gross because I think it's the loudest word in your whole letter. 104 00:06:03.740 --> 00:06:05.660 Let's look at what you wrote a few lines later. 105 00:06:05.660 --> 00:06:08.460 We are both clean people that take good care of ourselves. 106 00:06:08.460 --> 00:06:12.580 You heard gross and you defended it with your hygiene and I don't think she was talking 107 00:06:12.580 --> 00:06:14.340 about hygiene at all. 108 00:06:14.340 --> 00:06:17.420 Gross is usually a moral word, not a sanitary one. 109 00:06:17.420 --> 00:06:22.700 It's what people reach for when something feels wrong, not when something feels unclean, 110 00:06:22.700 --> 00:06:25.020 although there can be overlap there. 111 00:06:25.020 --> 00:06:28.460 Now I think there could be two things going on here. 112 00:06:28.460 --> 00:06:32.220 The first is that women who engaged in sexual activities before marriage, even though they 113 00:06:32.220 --> 00:06:37.020 enjoyed it at the time, often retroactively bucket those activities as sexually immoral 114 00:06:37.020 --> 00:06:41.100 because they're attached to a premarital sex. 115 00:06:41.100 --> 00:06:44.780 And the activity then gets tainted by that context. 116 00:06:44.780 --> 00:06:48.620 The second is that your definition of gross changes when you're aroused because of how 117 00:06:48.620 --> 00:06:49.860 our brains work. 118 00:06:49.860 --> 00:06:54.740 When you were young and dating, it was both more exciting and she likely had higher levels 119 00:06:54.740 --> 00:06:58.740 of testosterone, less stress, and fewer responsibilities. 120 00:06:58.740 --> 00:07:02.500 And those all tend to radically affect women's arousal patterns. 121 00:07:02.500 --> 00:07:05.700 For more information on that, check out the post on the dual control model. 122 00:07:05.700 --> 00:07:07.660 There's a link to it in the show notes. 123 00:07:07.660 --> 00:07:12.300 So in short, she's not turned on enough to be willing to do those things. 124 00:07:12.300 --> 00:07:13.940 Right now, it's too gross. 125 00:07:13.940 --> 00:07:17.940 If she were intoxicated with arousal, she wouldn't care. 126 00:07:17.940 --> 00:07:19.580 And this we see often in affairs. 127 00:07:19.580 --> 00:07:24.660 Suddenly, people will do things they previously considered off-limits, gross taboo, et cetera, 128 00:07:24.660 --> 00:07:27.540 because of the excitement and the arousal of the affair. 129 00:07:27.540 --> 00:07:29.940 And that really hurts their spouse. 130 00:07:29.940 --> 00:07:35.660 Even more when those get reclassified again as a moral acts because of the context when 131 00:07:35.660 --> 00:07:40.660 they repent and rebuild their marriage, often those acts remain off limits, which can 132 00:07:40.660 --> 00:07:43.620 really cause a lot of hurt and confusion. 133 00:07:43.620 --> 00:07:49.300 And I think these two things together explain why we see that for women in particular, the 134 00:07:49.300 --> 00:07:54.460 more they engage in premarital sexual activities, the less their sexual satisfaction is in their 135 00:07:54.460 --> 00:07:55.460 marriage. 136 00:07:55.460 --> 00:07:59.620 This is correlated to both manual sex and oral sex prior to their marriage. 137 00:07:59.620 --> 00:08:02.660 So now go back and read your own question again. 138 00:08:02.660 --> 00:08:07.280 If you had sex before marriage with each other, you're her only partner. 139 00:08:07.280 --> 00:08:12.020 And those two things she won't do now, manual and oral sex, are two of the things you were 140 00:08:12.020 --> 00:08:13.020 doing back then. 141 00:08:13.020 --> 00:08:18.220 And in our data, a couple who did manual oral and vaginal sex before marriage ends up with 142 00:08:18.220 --> 00:08:23.340 their wife about 16% less sexually satisfied in her marriage. 143 00:08:23.340 --> 00:08:27.780 And that effect doesn't show up in frequency, only in satisfaction. 144 00:08:27.780 --> 00:08:32.300 In other words, they don't have less sex than other people, they just enjoy it less. 145 00:08:32.300 --> 00:08:35.260 Which is what you're experiencing in your marriage, exactly. 146 00:08:35.260 --> 00:08:39.460 Sex twice a week for 17 years, that is pretty much on par. 147 00:08:39.460 --> 00:08:41.820 That is the average frequency is fine. 148 00:08:41.820 --> 00:08:42.820 She shows up. 149 00:08:42.820 --> 00:08:47.060 What's missing is specific acts and they happen to be specific acts from the years you weren't 150 00:08:47.060 --> 00:08:48.260 married yet. 151 00:08:48.260 --> 00:08:52.620 They also tend to be the specific acts that women say they need in order to orgasm and 152 00:08:52.620 --> 00:08:54.460 enjoy sex more. 153 00:08:54.460 --> 00:08:57.580 Which also answers the thing you said that you couldn't understand. 154 00:08:57.580 --> 00:09:01.020 You know, you said that she will she would allow me to do these things when we dated. 155 00:09:01.020 --> 00:09:05.980 So I'm unsure of where it got in her mind to never do them again. 156 00:09:05.980 --> 00:09:07.900 And the answer is the wedding did. 157 00:09:07.900 --> 00:09:13.260 Those acts got refiled and when the context shifted, they're not things my boyfriend and 158 00:09:13.260 --> 00:09:14.260 I did anymore. 159 00:09:14.260 --> 00:09:16.860 They're things that I did before I was married. 160 00:09:16.860 --> 00:09:22.540 And she may well have spent the years since making peace with that by deciding it was shameful. 161 00:09:22.540 --> 00:09:28.140 Now you're asking her to do this shameful thing on purpose as a wife and as the mother of 162 00:09:28.220 --> 00:09:29.380 your two girls. 163 00:09:29.380 --> 00:09:32.780 And that can be a hard bridge to cross for some wives. 164 00:09:32.780 --> 00:09:36.420 And this premarital context doesn't tend to affect men in the same way. 165 00:09:36.420 --> 00:09:39.460 I think that's why you wrote, I just don't understand. 166 00:09:39.460 --> 00:09:43.100 You are both remembering the same past and you remember it as good. 167 00:09:43.100 --> 00:09:47.460 But there's a fair chance that she remembers it as what you did before she knew better. 168 00:09:47.460 --> 00:09:52.180 And every time you ask to do it again, you're asking her to go back to that context. 169 00:09:52.180 --> 00:09:54.620 And she's likely not consciously aware of this. 170 00:09:54.620 --> 00:09:56.860 She's not intentionally stonewalling you. 171 00:09:56.940 --> 00:10:00.460 She's answering you in the one word that she's got. 172 00:10:00.460 --> 00:10:04.700 I'd also flag one more possibility on the it doesn't feel good because it might be the 173 00:10:04.700 --> 00:10:06.220 plainest one. 174 00:10:06.220 --> 00:10:09.540 You said she can only orgasm with a vibrator. 175 00:10:09.540 --> 00:10:14.500 We've had that conversation on our forum plenty of times and it often goes like this. 176 00:10:14.500 --> 00:10:18.900 From one husband, she used to orgasm with oral only in the beginning and it wasn't often. 177 00:10:18.900 --> 00:10:22.860 Then over time, we got a good vibrator and she always orgasms with it. 178 00:10:22.860 --> 00:10:25.860 But it has been impossible to orgasm otherwise. 179 00:10:25.860 --> 00:10:30.140 And if that's what happened to you two, then it doesn't feel good, isn't a guilt and isn't 180 00:10:30.140 --> 00:10:31.140 a dodge. 181 00:10:31.140 --> 00:10:32.620 It's a status report. 182 00:10:32.620 --> 00:10:36.580 And lying there while your husband works away at something that isn't going anywhere knowing 183 00:10:36.580 --> 00:10:41.580 he's waiting on a result you can't produce isn't pleasant, it's awkward and anyone would 184 00:10:41.580 --> 00:10:43.380 start avoiding it. 185 00:10:43.380 --> 00:10:47.740 But you're right that you don't know and that tells me you two aren't having discussions 186 00:10:47.740 --> 00:10:51.580 about it, which means that you can't communicate about it productively. 187 00:10:51.580 --> 00:10:55.540 And that's the actual problem because if you can't talk about a problem in your marriage, 188 00:10:55.540 --> 00:10:58.100 then you can't solve the problem in your marriage. 189 00:10:58.100 --> 00:11:01.220 And this is true far more than people expect. 190 00:11:01.220 --> 00:11:04.620 Most of the time when someone tells me they have a problem with sex, the problem isn't 191 00:11:04.620 --> 00:11:05.620 sex. 192 00:11:05.620 --> 00:11:08.060 The problem is that they can't have a conversation about sex. 193 00:11:08.060 --> 00:11:13.260 This is a communications issue and a trust issue and an attitude issue, not usually a sex 194 00:11:13.260 --> 00:11:14.260 issue. 195 00:11:14.260 --> 00:11:18.780 All right, let's move on to the I guess I'll just never be good enough for you because mixed 196 00:11:18.780 --> 00:11:21.460 in with all of this is that line. 197 00:11:21.460 --> 00:11:24.660 And I want to spend a minute on it because I don't think it means what you think it 198 00:11:24.660 --> 00:11:26.060 means. 199 00:11:26.060 --> 00:11:28.100 My wife used to say this too. 200 00:11:28.100 --> 00:11:31.980 And I wrote a whole thread about this in our forum back in 2020 because it kept coming 201 00:11:31.980 --> 00:11:38.180 up in the becoming more sexually engaged course that I teach for wise in their discussions. 202 00:11:38.180 --> 00:11:40.100 And here's what I wrote. 203 00:11:40.100 --> 00:11:41.740 This is an extremely common feeling. 204 00:11:41.740 --> 00:11:43.540 My wife feels the same way often. 205 00:11:43.540 --> 00:11:46.060 We've had lots of discussions about it on her side. 206 00:11:46.060 --> 00:11:50.840 She feels like she can't wrap her head around how I can be content, which I am, and yet 207 00:11:50.840 --> 00:11:52.780 still want more. 208 00:11:52.780 --> 00:11:58.180 And that's the piece I'd hand you that she can't make, I'm happy with her sex life. 209 00:11:58.180 --> 00:12:02.460 And I would like to try new things fit in the same head at the same time. 210 00:12:02.460 --> 00:12:07.020 Now, I don't know if you're like me that you're both content and curious, but that's where 211 00:12:07.020 --> 00:12:13.140 a lot of husbands end up in the, if the marriage is healthy to her, there are contradiction. 212 00:12:13.140 --> 00:12:17.500 And the only way to resolve a contradiction is decide one of them is a lie. 213 00:12:17.500 --> 00:12:21.860 So she concludes that the contentment is the lie, which means every time you ask for something 214 00:12:21.860 --> 00:12:24.060 new, she isn't hearing curiosity. 215 00:12:24.060 --> 00:12:29.660 She's hearing a verdict that you're not enough and I've been pretending to say that you are. 216 00:12:29.660 --> 00:12:34.780 And you've been asking for 17 years, she's been hearing 17 years of this verdict. 217 00:12:34.780 --> 00:12:40.300 And underneath that is something bigger, which is the fear of risking the mediocrity that 218 00:12:40.300 --> 00:12:45.460 you already have for something that might be really good, but might go really bad. 219 00:12:45.460 --> 00:12:47.100 Because what if things change? 220 00:12:47.100 --> 00:12:48.660 What if it's harder? 221 00:12:48.660 --> 00:12:54.460 What if you have to have difficult conversations and you don't handle them well? 222 00:12:54.460 --> 00:12:56.460 That's usually not just a sex problem. 223 00:12:56.460 --> 00:12:59.340 That's typically a whole life problem. 224 00:12:59.340 --> 00:13:02.860 And that's what I spend a lot of my time on with coaching clients is how do we have these 225 00:13:02.860 --> 00:13:04.500 hard conversations? 226 00:13:04.500 --> 00:13:07.940 How do we shift the attitude to I want more of this? 227 00:13:07.940 --> 00:13:12.700 And how do we make that shift feel possible so that it doesn't feel so risky? 228 00:13:12.700 --> 00:13:15.740 Because there's a good chance that your wife doesn't want to talk about this or explore it 229 00:13:15.740 --> 00:13:18.860 because the last time she did, it wasn't safe. 230 00:13:18.860 --> 00:13:22.180 And that might mean she tried something and you pushed further than she was willing to 231 00:13:22.180 --> 00:13:23.180 go. 232 00:13:23.180 --> 00:13:26.020 It might mean that she tried to share how she felt about something and you took it badly 233 00:13:26.020 --> 00:13:30.860 or shut it down or it might be family of origin stuff where she was taught a bad attitude 234 00:13:30.860 --> 00:13:33.900 about sex that she's carried forward into your marriage. 235 00:13:33.900 --> 00:13:35.300 All right, moving on. 236 00:13:35.300 --> 00:13:39.980 I want to talk about the eye rolling, even if it was in emoji form because I've been hard 237 00:13:39.980 --> 00:13:43.060 on this before and I want to be careful. 238 00:13:43.060 --> 00:13:48.780 I've listed eye rolling as one of those red flags that a marriage is drifting towards divorce. 239 00:13:48.780 --> 00:13:50.380 And I still stand by that. 240 00:13:50.380 --> 00:13:55.900 It sends a very clear message that his desire to connect is so unimportant to her that it 241 00:13:55.900 --> 00:13:58.820 gets the same treatment as a lame joke. 242 00:13:58.820 --> 00:14:03.220 And in your situation, though, her eye rolling doesn't seem to be dismissive but rather full 243 00:14:03.220 --> 00:14:08.620 of self doubt, contempt doesn't come with self doubt, your wife rolls her eyes. 244 00:14:08.620 --> 00:14:12.180 And then she says, I guess I'll just never be good enough for you. 245 00:14:12.180 --> 00:14:17.060 And who genuinely thinks you're beneath her doesn't also lie awake worrying that she's 246 00:14:17.060 --> 00:14:18.060 failing you. 247 00:14:18.060 --> 00:14:20.340 They can't both be sincere. 248 00:14:20.340 --> 00:14:22.660 So read the eye roll through that context. 249 00:14:22.660 --> 00:14:24.740 It's a shield, not a sneer. 250 00:14:24.740 --> 00:14:25.980 And that doesn't make it harmless. 251 00:14:25.980 --> 00:14:30.300 It still lands on you exactly like contempt does, which is precisely why it's on that red 252 00:14:30.300 --> 00:14:36.980 flag list that is probably a good part of why this has been eating at you for 17 years. 253 00:14:36.980 --> 00:14:38.980 But it changes what you do about it. 254 00:14:38.980 --> 00:14:40.660 You don't confront contempt. 255 00:14:40.660 --> 00:14:45.460 You tell her that the what the gesture does, because there's a very good chance that she 256 00:14:45.460 --> 00:14:48.020 has no idea she's doing it. 257 00:14:48.020 --> 00:14:53.300 Of everything in this post, that's the easiest conversation to have and the one I'd have first. 258 00:14:53.300 --> 00:14:55.060 That doesn't mean it's an easy conversation. 259 00:14:55.060 --> 00:14:57.420 It's just easier than the other ones. 260 00:14:57.420 --> 00:15:00.060 And lastly, let's talk about sacred cows. 261 00:15:00.060 --> 00:15:03.380 Whatever the reason, if you can't talk about it, you can't fix it. 262 00:15:03.380 --> 00:15:05.060 That's the real problem here. 263 00:15:05.060 --> 00:15:09.660 The rest is context, but this is the issue, not the oral sex, not the toys. 264 00:15:09.660 --> 00:15:13.340 That you can't have a productive conversation about any of it. 265 00:15:13.340 --> 00:15:17.460 And here's the detail in your letter that proves it, the one that I think you kind of glossed 266 00:15:17.460 --> 00:15:18.740 right over. 267 00:15:18.740 --> 00:15:22.340 I even asked her to do little things like come to bed without panties or send a flirty 268 00:15:22.340 --> 00:15:24.700 text, which never happens. 269 00:15:24.700 --> 00:15:26.900 And stop and think about that. 270 00:15:26.900 --> 00:15:29.460 Why would anyone refuse to send a text? 271 00:15:29.460 --> 00:15:30.460 It costs nothing. 272 00:15:30.460 --> 00:15:33.940 There's no hygiene concern, no pain, no exposure, no theology. 273 00:15:33.940 --> 00:15:39.340 If her problem were oral sex specifically or her body specifically, a flirty text would 274 00:15:39.340 --> 00:15:41.340 be free. 275 00:15:41.340 --> 00:15:42.340 But it isn't free. 276 00:15:42.340 --> 00:15:45.420 And that tells you that the fence isn't around the axe at all. 277 00:15:45.420 --> 00:15:46.780 It's around the topic. 278 00:15:46.780 --> 00:15:48.420 She's not protecting oral sex. 279 00:15:48.420 --> 00:15:53.820 She's protecting a whole territory and everything that points at that territory right down to 280 00:15:53.820 --> 00:15:57.180 a text message gets refused on principle. 281 00:15:57.180 --> 00:16:01.420 So you need to have an open conversation about the fact that you don't feel allowed to have 282 00:16:01.420 --> 00:16:05.020 the conversation, that there are sacred cows in your marriage that you're not allowed 283 00:16:05.020 --> 00:16:09.300 to touch, not allowed to challenge, not allowed to question, not allowed to discuss, or you 284 00:16:09.300 --> 00:16:12.780 even try to improve because they're simply off limits. 285 00:16:12.780 --> 00:16:17.060 And that shouldn't be a valid stance in a loving marriage. 286 00:16:17.060 --> 00:16:21.900 Now if you are a wife or a husband reading this and feeling defensive on her behalf or 287 00:16:21.900 --> 00:16:23.660 on your own, I get it. 288 00:16:23.660 --> 00:16:26.020 So let me say a few things directly to you. 289 00:16:26.020 --> 00:16:29.380 None of this is designed to tell you that you're inadequate. 290 00:16:29.380 --> 00:16:30.540 It isn't a scorecard. 291 00:16:30.540 --> 00:16:33.980 It isn't a list of things you're supposed to be doing. 292 00:16:33.980 --> 00:16:38.300 If your spouse asks for something new, they're not filing a complaint about you. 293 00:16:38.300 --> 00:16:42.860 They're doing the one thing that the data says actually matters, which is being honest 294 00:16:42.860 --> 00:16:44.380 about what they want. 295 00:16:44.380 --> 00:16:48.300 The alternative version, the one where nothing is ever said and resentment quietly builds 296 00:16:48.300 --> 00:16:54.860 for a decade, is far worse, and I've watched it play out many, many times. 297 00:16:54.860 --> 00:16:57.940 And a wife on our forum said it better than I ever have. 298 00:16:57.940 --> 00:17:00.060 She wrote, this concept is challenging for me. 299 00:17:00.060 --> 00:17:04.420 I think it's because it feels like things may never be enough for my husband. 300 00:17:04.420 --> 00:17:08.380 He's just always going to want more and more and different and different and edgier and 301 00:17:08.380 --> 00:17:12.800 edgier until there's no moral way for me to satisfy him. 302 00:17:12.800 --> 00:17:16.620 It's not the I feel inadequate to fulfill this request. 303 00:17:16.620 --> 00:17:20.820 If I say yes to this, there will be another ask and another and it never stops and eventually 304 00:17:20.820 --> 00:17:23.420 it will lead somewhere I can't go. 305 00:17:23.420 --> 00:17:30.980 That's the inadequacy they're feeling, that potential future where they can't go any further. 306 00:17:30.980 --> 00:17:37.260 And if that's what you believe, then holding the line right where it is isn't stubbornness. 307 00:17:37.260 --> 00:17:39.580 It's the only rational move that you've got. 308 00:17:39.580 --> 00:17:42.240 Any movement proves the line moves. 309 00:17:42.240 --> 00:17:44.420 So I'd offer two things. 310 00:17:44.420 --> 00:17:48.860 First from another wife in the same conversation who felt exactly that and then went and found 311 00:17:48.860 --> 00:17:50.100 out. 312 00:17:50.100 --> 00:17:54.060 She wrote, I totally felt that way myself when I decided to stop being a gatekeeper. 313 00:17:54.060 --> 00:17:56.660 I used to say he's just never satisfied. 314 00:17:56.660 --> 00:17:57.980 And that is sort of true. 315 00:17:57.980 --> 00:17:59.780 He wants sex a lot. 316 00:17:59.780 --> 00:18:04.260 But now that we've been having regular sex and I have not been denying him and even initiating 317 00:18:04.260 --> 00:18:09.460 and engaging, we've come to a rhythm or we're finding it still. 318 00:18:09.460 --> 00:18:11.700 And it's not increasing more and more. 319 00:18:11.700 --> 00:18:14.460 It's not getting more and more edgy. 320 00:18:14.460 --> 00:18:17.100 And the escalation she was bracing for didn't happen. 321 00:18:17.100 --> 00:18:19.060 It settled into a rhythm. 322 00:18:19.060 --> 00:18:24.980 The second is if you, if that fear is real for you, then say it out loud, not I like 323 00:18:24.980 --> 00:18:26.260 what we do already. 324 00:18:26.260 --> 00:18:28.660 Say I'm afraid this never stops. 325 00:18:28.660 --> 00:18:31.180 That's the sentence your spouse can actually respond to. 326 00:18:31.180 --> 00:18:33.460 They can tell you where the ceiling is. 327 00:18:33.460 --> 00:18:37.900 And they can't do that if the only thing they ever hear is just a no. 328 00:18:37.900 --> 00:18:42.460 If you don't share your fears, then they can't comfort you about them. 329 00:18:42.460 --> 00:18:44.460 So where does that leave you? 330 00:18:44.460 --> 00:18:46.700 You ultimately can't force someone to grow. 331 00:18:46.700 --> 00:18:52.860 If she really doesn't want to, if she genuinely wants to stay stuck here, then yeah, you're stuck. 332 00:18:52.860 --> 00:18:54.540 There isn't anything you can do about that. 333 00:18:54.540 --> 00:18:56.860 You took a vow to love her no matter what. 334 00:18:56.860 --> 00:19:00.220 And this is one of those no matter what's. 335 00:19:00.220 --> 00:19:02.660 And sometimes the only option left is prayer. 336 00:19:02.660 --> 00:19:07.740 And I don't mean to say that prayer is only a last resort, but rather that all of this 337 00:19:07.740 --> 00:19:08.980 should be covered in prayer. 338 00:19:08.980 --> 00:19:12.180 And sometimes there isn't another step that you can take in that moment. 339 00:19:12.180 --> 00:19:14.260 That's the only one you can do. 340 00:19:14.260 --> 00:19:19.860 Now if this conversation has become hostile in your marriage, then pray about it alone because 341 00:19:19.860 --> 00:19:24.660 or else you risk your shared prayer time feeling like a manipulation tactic. 342 00:19:24.660 --> 00:19:28.420 If you're praying with your spouse and saying something like, God, please soften the heart 343 00:19:28.420 --> 00:19:32.460 of my wife who is depriving her spouse against your word or something like that, that is not 344 00:19:32.460 --> 00:19:33.380 going to go well. 345 00:19:33.380 --> 00:19:35.340 Do not do that. 346 00:19:35.340 --> 00:19:39.100 If the conversation is more open and feels like an impasse that you both would like to 347 00:19:39.100 --> 00:19:44.300 move forward on, then pray about it together and ask God to show you a way forward. 348 00:19:44.300 --> 00:19:48.500 Because if your wife is open to growing, open to changing, opening, open to exploring with 349 00:19:48.500 --> 00:19:52.620 you and you're willing to do it in a way that's comfortable for her or at least not 350 00:19:52.620 --> 00:19:58.220 unduly uncomfortable because all growth is a bit uncomfortable, then there's a lot of 351 00:19:58.220 --> 00:19:59.220 room here. 352 00:19:59.220 --> 00:20:04.980 You've got 17 good years, two kids and a marriage you describe as pretty darn good. 353 00:20:04.980 --> 00:20:07.220 That's not a small foundation. 354 00:20:07.220 --> 00:20:12.100 Most of what's broken here is a conversation and conversations can be learned. 355 00:20:12.100 --> 00:20:15.780 And if you want help with that specifically book a discovery call, there's a link in 356 00:20:15.780 --> 00:20:16.780 the show notes. 357 00:20:16.780 --> 00:20:21.900 You can walk you both through the discussion, help you build better attitudes, better conversations, 358 00:20:21.900 --> 00:20:26.500 better communication and teach you how to handle that conflict when it comes up. 359 00:20:26.500 --> 00:20:30.700 Then you can work together to make your marriage amazing for both of you because I'm willing 360 00:20:30.700 --> 00:20:35.180 to bet that there are things she wishes she could change in the marriage to that also 361 00:20:35.180 --> 00:20:39.300 feel like sacred cows that can't be touched from her perspective. 362 00:20:39.300 --> 00:20:41.980 And for everyone else, I'm curious, how would you answer this question? 363 00:20:41.980 --> 00:20:43.980 I'd love to know what you think. 364 00:20:43.980 --> 00:20:44.980 Head over to the blog. 365 00:20:44.980 --> 00:20:47.380 There's a link in the show notes. 366 00:20:47.380 --> 00:20:51.420 I'd love to know what you think about it and maybe the original poster will come and read 367 00:20:51.420 --> 00:20:56.780 your thoughts if you have ideas that I didn't, either that support or contradict my stance. 368 00:20:56.780 --> 00:20:58.780 The floor is yours. 369 00:20:58.780 --> 00:21:00.780 And that is it for today. 370 00:21:00.780 --> 00:21:01.580 We'll talk to you next time.